A lot of smart Christian guys say that God randomly chooses certain people for hell...
It was a bizarre moment for me because I immediately realized that I was the equivalent of the guy who doesn't watch sports who finds himself in the middle of a testosterone dripping locker room convo about sports; I just kept saying "flea-flicker" over and over but I was completely lost. A bunch of jumbled scriptures popped into my head about God loving "the world" and "not wanting anyone to perish" but I was pretty crippled by these elites and their finely polished exegesis of certain scriptures, especially large chunks of Romans. That was the day that I decided not to rest until I knew what God had to say about it. I know that we can't know everything about God and I certainly have one particular friend who likes to remind of that fact just about every day. However, I was certain that God would speak up if I asked Him whether He died for ALL people or just the FEW (Elect). Did God love and die for Judas? How about Hitler? Hitchens? Did these men have an opportunity to surrender to God but rebelliously refused or did God choose them as objects of wrath before they were even born? Heavy questions, huh? My journey so far has been like waking up from a coma. I feel invigorated like this was exactly what I needed to arouse my passion again. The crux of everything I live for falls under the banner of knowing Jesus and showing Jesus, so it really matters to me when someone says "oh by the way, Jesus didn't die for the sins of the whole world." All of my favorite childhood Sunday school songs like "Jesus loves the little children" suddenly came rushing back to me with scary new monotone melodies sung by a baleful and overly blissful children's choir singing "Jesus loves the little elect children, some of the children of the world". Okay, I dramatically digress.
This is either an attack on God's very character or I need to systemically reconstruct my relationship with Him. You might be thinking right now that this issue is "trivial" and doesn't warrant such an exasperated response. Okay, what If you found out that your father happened upon a burning school bus full of kids and he was able to bravely pull out 10 kids. You would say he's a hero. Now, what if you found out that the bus had 20 kids in it and your father had plenty of time to save the other 10 kids but he chose not to? Still a hero? Maybe, but you would definitely want to know why he chose not to save the other 10 kids. Now, what if you found out that your father actually determined that the bus would crash and catch on fire in the first place? Bigger questions? At this point you would be asking yourself "do I really know my father at all?". How do I relate to him now that I know he acts this way? I know we are talking about God who is perfect and children who are totally depraved sinners but my point still stands. If God is truly operating in this way then it forever changes the way I relate to Him. Is raw power without virtue worthy of worship? I guess I should feel lucky to be elect, if in fact I am elect, but in reality it makes me afraid of God and sad for the non-elect who never had a chance to surrender. If God doesn't operate in this way then there is a major attack on His character taking place right in front of us. Playing the middle ground by saying that there is adequate scripture to support both views on an accusation of this magnitude is absolutely benign to me. The gravity of the indictment itself requires that a conclusion be drawn from the Word straight away.
{Deep breathe Jae}
Either God loves the whole world in a way that reaches and surpasses our very highest ideal of love or God does not love the whole world and we need to redefine our depraved human ideal of what love truly is. Jesus Christ through His life on earth resolutely embodied the answer to this question. He begs for the forgiveness of His own murderers. Please! What kind of love is this!?
I would love to start a Q&A dialogue on this subject. If you're interested, and your intention is to seek truth rather than divide, please jump in.
I agree that the paradox exists between our free will and predestination. The thought that we have a free will on earth to choose to faith in Christ or not, yet God the Father, and he alone, already has a book of life and know all things. Then again that rests on the infinite number of unfathomable characteristics of God like being outside the laws of of time and space etc. This also brings up the "once saved always saved" dilemma. We know that once we have the Spirit we can fall away from God by Apistis. Pistis is Faith, Apistis is like putting it in reverse, oppisite of faith. "We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first." Heb 3:14
ReplyDeleteI Like the discussion, I think though we must bear to question the misconceptions of "elect" b/c we know its have been used doctrinally in a multitude of applications from the early church being persecuted to the Roman Catholic empire's use to be imperialistic to thinkings early extreme puritans. Simply put they are those who have salvation in Christ.
It is ALWAYS good to converse about these things and bring into discussion questions of faith. For me, if only the father knows the names in the book of life and faith comes from hearing his words. The fact his ways are so unfathomable means to never have a complete understanding or grasp of how he operates. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:9
Love the boldness and keep the Pistis!
GHL:
ReplyDeleteI decided to comment in response to your post but it became so long i decided to post it as a blog. Enjoy See blog post: More on Sovereignty.
I thought this blog gave great insight in to a persons real struggle when contemplating God's sovereignty. The only suggestion I might make is that in your analogy of children on a bus I would consider changing it to a bus full of death row inmates who were traveling from the prison to the facility where they would be put to death. Oh, and the reason for their conviction was that they murdered and tortured your little brother, your fathers youngest son. For me this changes the whole dynamic and causes me to see the father in a much different light. Great blog. Keep it up.
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